The medieval understanding of God, which St. Thomas Aquinas espoused, does not allow for doubting his existence. The proof that follows is a paraphrasing of the Angelic Doctor's many writings that dealt with this subject. It proves the existence of a being that is one, immutable, eternal, infinite, omniscient, and omnipotent:

Let's start by taking a position of radical doubt. Suppose for a moment that you are not really a human being with an actual body. In reality, you are nothing more than a brain floating in a vat of fluids, with electrodes attached to various parts of your exterior that allow scientists or machines to manipulate you into thinking that what you perceive is actually there, when in fact it is nothing more than an imaginary world. Right now, they are making you think that you are reading this when in fact you are not.

From this point of extreme skepticism, we will prove beyond all possible doubt that a God-like being exists.

1. One cannot deny one's own existence.

Cogito, ergo sum. Even if you're just a brain in a vat, your own existence can be verified simply by the fact that you perceive, that is, you see, hear, smell, taste and touch things. Whether or not your perceptions are accurate is another question, but even if you doubt your own existence, you must exist, for it is impossible for a non-existent thing to doubt. In fact, the very act of doubting proves that you exist. Therefore, denying your own existence is a contradiction in terms. I can deny yours and you can deny mine, but I can't deny mine, nor can you deny yours.

2. There is at least one thing that exists.

It is possible for you to be deceived in your perception. In fact, it's conceivable that every one of your perceptions is a delusion. But even if that is the case, even if nothing you think exists actually exists, you still must exist.

Entity is the word we have for anything that exists. You exist, so you are an entity.

3. There is such a thing as existence.

You can know with certainty that there is at least one entity, at least one thing of which the term existence can be predicated. If there were no such thing as existence, nothing would exist, not even you. But, as we have seen already, that is impossible as long as you can perceive.

As Aquinas would say, there must be an "act of being" in which all entities participate. This act of being must itself exist; it must be an entity. Thomas calls this entity esse, which is Latin for "to be" or "to exist."

4. The nature of esse is actuality.

Now that we have established that esse is an entity, we must ask: What is the nature of this entity? What is its definition?

To answer these questions, we must consider existence by itself, apart from everything else.

What do we mean when we say that something exists? We mean that it is actual. For example, an acorn is actually an acorn and potentially a tree. A tree is actually a tree and potentially lumber. Lumber is actually lumber and potentially a desk. A desk is actually a desk and potentially firewood. Firewood is actually firewood and potentially ashes.

In other words, a thing is actually what it is right now; it is potentially what it might be in the future.

Now when we say that something exists, we normally refer to actuality rather than potentiality. For instance, if I held up an egg and said, "This egg exists," you would understand me, because what I am saying is "This egg is actual" or "This is actually an egg." But if I held up the egg and said, "This chicken exists," that would not make sense, because even though the egg is potentially a chicken (that is, the chicken exists potentially), the concept of existence applies primarily to the egg's actual state and only secondarily to its potential state.

Now potentiality is still a form of existence, but we realize that it is, in some sense, inferior to actuality. In other words, potentiality is a "shade" of existence the same way that pink is a shade of red. Just as we would say that pink lemonade is red but not in the same way that Hawaiian punch is red, so we say that potentiality exists but not as much as actuality does. Actuality is the fullness of existence.

So, again, taking the brain-in-a-vat hypothesis, you know that you are actual, even if nothing else you perceive exists.

5. Esse is nothing but pure actuality.

Potentiality is a privation of actuality. That is, it is not a thing in itself but the absence of something. In the same way, darkness is not a substance itself but the absence (or privation) of light.

Now a thing considered in itself contains nothing but its fullness. The nature (or essence) of light consists of nothing but light itself; it does not contain darkness. Therefore, the essence of esse contains nothing but its fullness, actuality. There is no potentiality in the nature of esse. Thus, the essence of esse is pure actuality, just as the essence of light is pure light.

Thomas argues that all entities participate in esse insofar as they are actual. Therefore, that in which they participate, esse, must be actual. In fact, it cannot admit of any potentiality.

6. Esse not only does exist but must exist.

Existence itself is pure actuality, with no potentiality in it. This means that the essence of existence is nothing other than existence. Existence is its own essence.

From this it follows that esse itself must exist, for if it did not, it would violate its own essence, which is impossible.

7. Esse is distinct from everything else that exists.

You can know from step 1 that you exist, and we know from step 3 that esse exists. But we also know that the two are not identical.

Let's say you're just a brain in a vat, that everything you perceive is an illusion. You can still recognize that, while you are actual in some ways, you are potential in other ways. You actually perceive that you're reading this article right now; youâ??re potentially perceiving something else. You are actually existing right now; you potentially exist five minutes from now. Moreover, anything else that may exist has the same attribute: Its essence is composed of both actuality and potentiality.

But, as we saw in step 5, esse is nothing but pure actuality. Thus, it must be distinct from any other entity.

8. Esse must be one.

If there were more than one esse, then there would be distinctions among them. But distinctions imply limitations, and limitations imply potentiality. But since esse is pure actuality, it has no limitations, which means there is no distinction in esse. Therefore, there is only one esse.

9. Esse must be immutable.

Change involves potentiality. In order for something to change, it must first have the potential to change; it must have a potentiality that is to be actualized. But since esse is purely actual, it has no potential to change. Therefore, esse is unchanging.

10. Esse must be eternal.

Time is nothing but the passing of the future into the present into the past. It is the changing of the not-yet into the now into the no-longer. But because esse does not change, it does not change from the future to the present to the past. It must be outside the realm of time, which means that there is no future, present, or past with esse. In other words, esse is non-temporal, or eternal.

11. Esse must be infinite.

Space is nothing but the changing of the over-here to the over-there. Anything that is actually here is potentially there. But because esse is immutable, it must be outside the realm of space. It has no spatial constraints, that is, esse is infinite.

12. Esse must be omniscient.

Even if you're a brain in a vat, you can perceive that you have the capacity to know. Because you are only partly actual, and esse is purely actual, esse must know all there is to know. That is, esse is all-knowing, or omniscient.

13. Esse must be omnipotent.

You can perceive that you have the capacity to do some things that are logically possible. Since you are only partly actual, and esse is purely actual, esse must be able to do all things that are logically possible. That is, esse is all-powerful, or omnipotent.

We have thus proven the existence of a being (esse) that not only does exist but must exist and is one, unchanging, eternal, infinite, omniscient, and omnipotent. This matches our definition of God that we stated at the beginning.

We can conclude, then, that even if all of your sense perceptions are false, even if you are nothing but a brain in a vat being manipulated into believing that you are reading this article right now when in fact you are not, there are two things you can know with absolute, 100 percent certainty: (1) You exist, and (2) God exists.

Whose God? What Religion worships him? There is no way to prove that, therefore from here all we've got is faith.

The God of Christianity supposedly has a plan for everything. If this is the God you choice to believe in, and if all the good and evil in this world are a part of that plan, then we only have the right argue so far as any created thing has the right to argue with its creator. This is to say, no right at all. The amount of arrogance that is needed to think one is wiser that an infinitely wise and all-knowing being is immense.

These are my thoughts; take them as you will, I hope that they're useful to you and I hope you take the time to understand. Peace be with you all and have a good day

There has been a slight misunderstinding when people think of what the "apple" gave us... First of all, this story has been taken far too literally. As mireya2 hinted, it is a general story, not as specific as most seem to think. The "apple" represents the advent of man getting the "knowledge of the angels". Many seem to think that this was science and reason. It was not. Humans already possessed such capabilities. The knowledge that the Bible is talking about is the ability to distinguish "Good" from "Evil". This is not in the subjective sense of being wronged, for many mammals possess that. This is the ability to judge an action of being wrong regardless of who goes through with that action. In the very nature of coming to know these things, Man and Woman fell to sin.
It was not simply something that could be taken away from their descendants, so all humans were under the veil of this sin by their upbringing into a sinful society. Unlike the angels, we did not have the discipline and wisdom to refrain from doing what we knew to be wrong. This is heavily because of our physical bodies and their instincts. These instincts, that were originally meant to keep us safe, now had to be regulated so that humans could co-exist. The new perspectives of good and evil, virtue and vice, order and chaos all put a bit of a bad spin on some of the more primitive acts of instinct.
There is another misconseption about the nature of sin. Instinct itself does not lead to evil, it is when one knows the disposition of their actions and decides to go ahead with an action that one knows to be "looked down upon" that one commits an evil.
Sin isn't inherited through blood, it is inherited through society. Sin spread as does a disease, not like our genes.

To Darkroseofhell: Woman didn't "eat" because she suddenly felt to eat, she was decieved by the reasoning of another being whom she believed trustworthy at the time. Likewise, Man didn't eat Just because Woman told him to, but because she reasoned the same way with him as she had been reasoned with.

The lesson to be learned is not "Thou shall not eat apples from the tree of knowledge" but instead "Thou shall not disobey God"

I hope that one who asks for the opinion of others also has the decency to respect those opinions. Good night.

This question is arbitrary if you are talking about God the Father, 'he' is a complete and perfect being in himself and therefore is static to himself, and ever-increasing in power from our perspective.
If you are talking about The Word, then yes. The Word has done so before and could do so again.

I have played some browser games before and some are good and others just suck. If anyone is looking for a better one, a friend of mine found a neat one (or at least it is cool so far). It's a space explore/battle type of game. ogame.org is the site. We were hoping to find people to join our alliance so if you want, try the game for a bit, and if you like it I would be happy to let you join us.

To join the alliance just click the alliance tab and search for jedi. It'll be the one with the lowest amount of memebers (at the moment).

Otherwise, I'd like to hear about some other good games people have come across. Thanks

Hmmmm.... I would rather like to see if Plunkies can prove the non-existence of a God. Y'know, since proving evolution doesn't do that. It would be even more amazing if he could do it without insulting someone... but that's hoping for too much I think.

You are an Angel! You are a good, gentle soul who enjoys helping others. You are kind, caring, and loving. Congratulations!

Choices: Ask or Don't ask
Consequences: Ask - she doesn't like you and it makes the friendship odd for a while
Don't ask - You'll never know... and the thing about this is that it can turn into a regret that may itch within you for a long time.
Benefits: Ask - She likes you, good things happen Don't Ask - you can remain good friends
The Decision: It is up to you, whatever path you take, make sure you are ready for the consequences. If you are going to go for it, than do it with the upmost confindence in yourself. None of this "there are better guys" crap, that's nonsense. You can be as good as she needs you to be, you just have to show that to her. Just remember: if you do ask and she says she isn't interested, that doesn't make you any less of a person. If she isn't interested, than it can't be helped. If you are good friends though, you could still remain so after asking... it would just be akward for a while.

the original meaning of pervert was similar to "insane" and to be called other than sane a hundred years ago was a negative thing. So it started negative, but technically now-a-days you can use any word you want with a positive spin as long as you use the right tone at the right time to the right person.

Perfect humans are soul merged with body... Adam and Eve were the only two whom ever existed in this state. When the exercised their free will in the wrong manner, their souls were separated from them. They became imperfect.

Humans are a biological creature on this planet. We are unique in our sentience, and with this we gain responsibilities. We could easily disrupt the way the world works now and wipe ourselves out completely. The world would move on like it always does however and new life would spring up from the remains of the old just like it always has.

Our true responsibility is to ensure our own survival. In doing this, we will ensure the survival of most of the world since we require many of these processes to exist.

Humans are humans, dwelling to much on the topic is useless, while avoiding it is ignorance. At the molecular level, we are quite similar to many forms of life on the planet... complex. Another question to consider is: How do we define "Human"

Is is known to have a moral definition, a biological definition, and metaphysical defintion... It all depends on what you want to be.

Quote by Plunkies It doesn't matter from what point he created the universe and the rules that govern it. He is omnipotent and is familiar with every aspect of his creation, and he is omniscient so he knows the effects of everything he will create. If he restricts his omniscience then he is no longer omniscient, we're back to the rock question. The christian god and free will are not compatable.

So you keep saying but you have no proof of this statement. You are using human thought to judge a super-dimential being that is beyond your understanding, anything you say on the matter is flawed to begin with as far as these hypothetical situations go. God is contradiction. Alpha and Omega, 100% spirit and 100% man. The inferior human logic you want to present here is not compatible with this idea if you lack a grand sense of imagination... as you seem to.

Quote: No, YOUR argument is flawed. He knows every aspect of his other "way" of doing whatever he does. If he didn't, then he wouldn't be omniscient now would he? You only keep proving my point. Unless you take away omniscience, omnipotence, or creation, free will cannot exist.

Every human has a certain strength, yet we rarely exercise it at 100% all the time... are you presuming to place restrictions on something that is all-powerful? Do you honestly think that God couldn't turn from knowing the future; couldn't restrict himself? If so than your "logic" makes no sense.

Quote: You couldn't possibly collect every single bit of data in the entire universe instantaneously combined with every motion of every atom for the rest of eternity. So no it isn't perfectly sensible, not at all, not even close, but whatever. Even pretending that it isn't impossible, just because you somehow have the position of every bit of matter in existence it doesn't mean you'll know where it is a minute from now, a day, a year, a century. Calculating the future of life would be even more difficult. You can't accurately predict how a living creature is going to survey a situation and react to it, let alone every single situation and all situations leading up to it. And it wouldn't keep me from extracting the data on what I will do, do the opposite, and screw up the entire database. Your whole hypothetical situation is complete nonsense.

You're thinking on too large a scale, if you calculate (and yes, this is a hypothetical situation, because I'm saying "if you could" knowing all along that as far as we know "we can't". But by using common sense, you can conclude that IF it could be done, this would be the result) at the smallest level, you could predict the chemical reaction in the brain the triggers the response in the body, accurately predicting everything that creature will do. Unless there is a spiritual or metaphysical part to the body, we become completely predictable. You took this situation far to seriously, and in that you failed to see its truth. Your love of independent free will has blinded you, especially because this situation was introduced to me by an atheist.

Quote: Ugh, don't even mention "scientific principles" like you know what you're talking about. There's nothing scientific about anything you've said. Oh well....

Back to whatever you were talking about, I think you skipped a step. The machine didn't create the world. Predicting what will happen doesn't remove free will, it's the act of creation, omnipotence, and omniscience combined. Just because the machine can accurately calculate what will happen it doesn't mean it has restricted what will happen in any way. Just like perso and his ice cream kid, he knows what the kid will pick but he had no control over his "free will" to choose.

I made my point perfectly, ever seen Paycheck? More unrealistic than what my friend proposed to me, but it's the principle behind the idea. God doesn't have to interfere, and so we can have free will. Your argument seems to be based on the fact that he can't not act... which is, again, restricting his power.

Quote: If you can calculate an infinite amount of information (every atom in every location for eternity) then what makes calculating this other infinite source impossible? Both are equally impossible, you're just talking out of your ass at this point.

I see you haven't read much about astronomy... the universe isn't infinite my friend.

Quote: Why? You never gave proof for this conclusion.

The proof is in the fact that he can do anything... you keep trying to prove he can't. On the surface you say that either he is not infinite, or we have no free will. In arguing with me, all I see is a child crying out "He doesn't exist!" leaving no room to logic or reason with.

Quote: Why? If he already knows then what is the point? Why would it be unfair? You keep saying random crap without backing any of it up.

If God is truly benevolent than he wouldn't condone such a thing... that is the point.

Quote: EXACTLY. If he already knows then why bother?

Why wouldn't he create something? Even if he knows what's going to happen "something is better than nothing" I do believe.

Quote: If he restricted his omniscience with his omnipotence then he is no longer omniscient. Can he make a rock so big that he can't lift it? Can he think of a question he can't answer? Can he commit suicide? You keep coming back to this type of situation.

Furthermore, your rambling is incompatable with the christian god anyway.

God is contradiction, this has been established for thousands of years. Nothing can be alpha and omega without contradicting itself. If you pull a viel over your eyes are you incapable of sight? No. Therefore, if God doesn't want to see the future, then he doesn't have to.

And I'd like you to prove this: "Furthermore, your rambling is incomparable with the Christian god anyway."

Quote: Nope. Just getting the feeling that your logic is so flawed that it's a waste of time to even respond to you. Please restrain yourself from predicting my feelings until you've come up with a solid argument.

My argument is fairly solid: An infinite being can do anything
You simply are stating over and over again that this being can�t do anything, which is contrary to logic.

Quote: Wow you're not even making sense anymore. His act of creating you is what forced you. He already knew what you would do so there's only one single timeline, the correct one. My argument is still perfectly valid and your last point was entirely flawed anyway.

You never refuted the original flaw in your argument, there everything in it is flawed by association.

Quote: How am I being ignorant? You're making god up as you go along in that very sentence. Above logic? We both know that's a total copout so that you don't have to explain your beliefs. If he's above logic then he can't be understood, he's unknowable and incomprehensible. That would make you an agnostic. If you're a theist then support your claims, if you're agnostic then how can you claim to know so much about god?

In the Catholic Catechism it states that God can never be completely understood by man, I recommend you brush up on the doctrine of the religions you are attacking before attacking them. God is infinite, and can never be completely understood by those with limits such as us. That is where your argument is flawed, you don't believe he is infinite - or you simply lack the correct definition of infinity. It is well known that humans cannot truly comprehend infinity.

Quote: There's practically no difference if you're omniscient (you know every aspect of how the water will pour), and omnipotent (total control over how you pour the water).

Yet you used a conditional form of speech? Curious...

Quote: I guess I can pretty much stop here. We're talking about the christian god. Your beliefs are not christian.

First of all, if your god is not all powerful then he is not the Christian god.

Sceond, if evolution and the big bang are true then adam and eve never existed, which leads to all sorts of problems with jesus not being the savior.

I recommend you stop bothering with christianity entirely and come up with your own conclusions, you don't appear to be christian anyway and the religion just seems to be hindering your thought process.

Actually Catholics are Christians and they have accepted evolution... something else you missed perhaps?

My God is all-powerful, and that is the point. If he is all-powerful, he is not completely comprehendible by the human mind, he is able to do anything - and that means knowing everything and allowing free will - and he is most importantly an infinite being.

The bible is not meant to be completely literal... quite the opposite actually. It is meant to be taken mostly metaphorical, as said in the introduction to the old testament in the original form.
Adam and Eve are simply the representations of the original two human beings, therefore in is a simple matter for them to come about via evolution.

Once again I recommend you learn more about what we are discussing as you seem to lack certain knowledge that could've helped me avoid many needless explanations. If you believe that limited creatures can understand an infinite being than your logic is a little skewed and it isn't worth trying to explain it to you.

Unless you have something useful to add to your argument besides insulting me, I will conveniently fail to respond. Good night, and good luck.

To whom this may concern,

Quote by Plunkies Well if you created the sun then yes you would be causing it to rise.

I'll agree that omniscience by itself does not necessarily imply a lack of "free will", since there is no explicit control being exercised.

However, if you add the attributes of Omnipotence and Creator of the universe to your definition of god, then there can be no "free will" at all. The "control" missing from the omniscience-alone argument is the act of creation. This control is absolute due to god's omnipotence. A god with these attributes in fact must have explicitly caused each and every event that will ever occur (done at the moment of creation). The only way to allow for some sort of free will to exist is to modify god's attributes such that he is not either omnipotent, omniscient, or the creator of everything.

For example, "free will" would be theoretically possible if:

1. God didn't know what his creations would do (not omniscient).
or
2. God didn't have the ability to control every aspect of what he was creating (not omnipotent).
or
3. God didn't create the entire universe (not creator).

Without modifying one of these three attributes, there is no alternative to a deterministic universe with each event explicitly controlled by God.

Did you take the time to consider that God may also have absolute control over himself? If we take this into consideration than we see that God created the rules of the universe to govern it in his place. Therefore he wouldn't need to exercise this "control" you seem so worried about, and therefore we can have free will.

Another slight point that I would like to make is that you presumptiously stated that God must have explicit control, since (if he is truly all-powerful) he doesn't "have" to do anything because he can always find another way. In this one point your entire argument is flawed... but I shall continue to respond to the rest of your arguments regardless.

Quote: Your choice was known even before you were born. Before you are even created god knows if you're saved or not and exactly what actions you will take, your choices are meaningless and your ending is a foregone conclusion. God could just as easily send people directly to heaven or hell without even needing them to go through a life, correct?

Let's try the opposite. Say there is no God, and no power outside the universe and it's own rules. Well, it would be perfectly sensible that if you could create a machine that could calculate the exact position of every quark and the physics behind every motion, that it could effectively predict the future and the past. Perfectly, might I add.

Okay, based on pure scientific principles, we have no free will. Hmm... but say there was a power outside the universe, this could add a bit of chaos and unpredictability to our lives. However, if this source is limited, then it can still be calculated and therefore free will is still suppressed. Now, if the source were to be unlimited - infinite - such as God is supposed to be, then it would be impossible to calculate and free will can exist.

So now we know that only with divine influence do we truly have a choice. Now yes, God could know all that we are going to do. In knowing this he could just skip life... but if you truly look at it, this action would defeat the point and be extremely unfair. God might as well not have created anything if this was so. So, if we have a problem thinking that we can have free will with an omniscient God, then that problem can be rectified in the fact that if God is truly all-powerful, he could make it so we have free will no matter what. By now I�m getting the feeling that you underestimated how hard infinity is to comprehend or how powerful and infinite being is.

Quote: Your time argument is superfluous. God knows the one single timeline that is correct so it's meaningless for him to be in all of them. If he already knows the timeline then time is irrelevent.

God knows what's true. The fact that he doesn't force us one way or another gives us a choice, which makes the time lines relevant and your argument against it irrelevant. See my last point.

Quote: Blah blah blah.

If you're not going to respect the evidence that is present, then you have no place judging it.

Quote: I have no argument for this. There's logical reason to believe a fictional character's attributes are whatever we want them to be, especially when we make them up as we go along. Those two things, free will and omnipotence, have no logical combination together but because it's a fictional character you can still claim he somehow has both if you wanted. You're not restricted by logic, because logic has no meaning to the completely illogical. There's logical reason to believe god is an evil unicorn that stabs babies and kicks puppies because there's no logical reason to believe in a god at all.

Spite and angry ignorance will gain you nothing in this conversation. If God is truly infinite, then it is quite easy to believe that he is above logic. Especially if you recognize that, if he created all things, logic is one of his creations.

Quote: Incompatable.

1. You were created by god.
2. God knew all your choices before you were created.

Where exactly is the free choice? Your choices were predetermined by god when he created you.

If you believe in the Christian god then you can have no free will. And since free will is the basis of being saved or not saved, then Christianity becomes one big joke...

Heaven or hell, it was already decided. Your gift of free will, merely an illusion. Your salvation, predetermined. Your faith, forced upon you. Your god, an evil manipulative monster. Your life, completely and utterly meaningless. Have a nice day.

There is a difference between creating a river then pouring the water into, and just pouring the water and letting it go where it will.

Consider for a moment that God didn't just "pop" create everything as it is now. Consider that he is instead a cause. I am going to use my belief here: I am a progressive creationist and believe that evolution and the Big Bang could've happened. Additionally, I believe God helped them along.

Now with that stated, say God caused the "Big Bang" and just slightly guided everything from that starting point. This would be similar to dumping a barrel of water and at certain important places, influencing its flow. Now say by looking at the terrain you can easily see the path that the water will take; is the water still not moving of its own volition... of its own choice? Yes, it is.

In this it can be seen that - even though you are the creator (the water wouldn't exist without you), you have the power of control (you can turn or stop the flow at any time), and you know where the water will go (explained above) - the water still has its own course it will follow as long as you give it the chance at free will.

God gives us this chance, he give us this grace of free will. If I am wrong about some of the logic here, or it is confusing, I welcome a respectful discussion on it.

Sincerely,

Count Malik Aru

It is not hell that is the main point of the idea of God. Sin simply separates you from God. Since God is the composition of all that is good, the more you separate yourself from all that is good, the more bad you will exist with for all time. God does not condemn us, we condemn ourselves. He gives us the free choice to accept his graces and love. If we choice to turn from this - if it isn't what we want - should God force us to exist with him in heaven? Should God force us to come into his presence when that very presence would burn the sins inside of us and put us in a similar anguish that we would experience while separated from him? No, he is an advocate of free will. He will not force us to suffer in the afterlife, but he will let us make that choice for ourselves.
On the point of those who never heard of God; there are none. All people throughout the world have seen God in one form or another. There are several places where God was worship before Christians ever came. If God was truly God, he would know that the differences in the cultures of the world would prevent one religion from ever having a chance at being accepted across the face of the globe simply due to prejudice between races and ethnic barriers. Is Christianity the only religion that believes in the "correct" God? Negative, Jews and Muslims both believe in the same God.
It is a very simple thing to follow your conscious, the voice that tells us how to survive in society peacefully. This is the basic truth to follow God. The only two things that he truly requires are for you to love him and love others as you love yourself through his eyes. Loving others is simple, it is what all of civilization is based upon; working together in harmony and brotherhood to form a safe and more worthwhile existence. Coming to love God is a simple matter of looking at the world around you and giving it the respect it deserves.

Question:

If God knows the decision of every individual, before they are born, regarding the acceptance or denial of Jesus as a savior, then why does he create one set of individuals destined for heaven and another set destined for eternal damnation? This seems unjust, perverse and particularly evil.

Alternative Conclusions:

1. If God's ultimate will is above human understanding it can be said that by trying to understand it we fail to gain any ground. If God is all-powerful then nothing can restrict him... not even logic.

2. If God knows all things and we have free will, it can be assumed that there is an allowance for such a thing. One such allowance is that there are multiple dimensions and God knows all paths into the future but restricts his abilities to know which path we will take as to give us the gift of free will. God has been known to restrict his power for the allowance of several things in our world, so this is not a hard thing to imagine.

3. There is also the possibility that even though God knows everything we will do, he is not dictating our choices. We still, then, have free will despite God's omniscience.

yeah... most of you are tip-toeing around the actual question. If God can do anying then he could create such a rock. But then again, in a twist of logic he could (if he is truely all powerful) lift and be unable to lift it at the same time. Looking at it in a demetional manner. In one possiblity, he could lift it, and at the parallel time in another he could be unable to. Either way, as a hole, since he is all powerful, anything is possible.

I must agree with the rest of those here. It would be best to suck it up and tell her, therefore releasing yourself. I'm not gonna lie, there could be some bad consequences. If she says no then you can do whatever you want without fear of regret however, such as moving away. Good luck man.

thank you all, I have enjoyed the forums quite a bit since coming here, and hope to see you around ^^

Well, I have thought about that a lot. I tend to believe in an infinite being, a god, and I also believe that evolution occurred. Seeing as evolution is extremely improbable (according to mathematics), it seems rational to think that God may have helped it along. It is always beneficial to sort this out in your own mind and make sense of what you find to be true to you. Never be shy about believing what makes the most sense to you, cause there are many people who will take advantage of those who are unsure of what to think.

Ahh yes, that is how I found this place... looking for a nice background

Hey
welcome to MT
not a whole lot more to say, but what are you most interested in here so far?

Well, I've been on here a few months now and finally realized that I never created an introduction thread for myself.

So anyways, Hello MT

Stuff about me...
I'm almost 20,
My friends call me AJ,
and thank you for taking the time to read this
Have a nice day

It is my opinion that death is a natural state of life. It is a change from the norm of things and most people fear change in general. Look at the earth, it has been changing since it was "born", but when the average temperature starts to rise, people suddenly go crazy. The average temperature in the age of the dinosaurs was much higher than it is now. Change is a natural part of life, and the best thing we can do is embrace it so that we may learn to adapt quicker; without change this universe wouldn't exist. Sure, having an aversion to death is good, but a fear of death only makes you that more incapable of saving yourself when such a situation arises. Fear creates panic, and panic leads to mistakes. Am I afraid of dying? well I certainly don't want to die, but I'm not going to spend my time worrying about it. I would say I'm wary of death, not necessarily afraid of it.

merged: 06-25-2006 ~ 12:17am

Quote by sayumikoif you fear death, it only means you're not content on what you've done with your life or you have some regrets

or it can mean that you are still trying to accomplish something and don't care to leave your work unfinished. I know that I have plans in the future that I want to put into action, and I'm wary of death cause I know that it could keep those things from ever coming to pass.

Hmmm.... the only people whom I can say I HATE are...
-rapists
-betrayers
-the willfully ignorant
all others I can forgive easily enough, depending on the situation.

Hmmm... I have several ways of calming down. Frist, I usually try to hold it in until one of the following can be done...
-Meditate/pray and confront the problem in my mind/soul
-Write a poem (helps to get the negative feelings out of me)
-find a empty place (most preferably my bedroom) and let my emotions run free until they're worn out.
-look to my girlfriend for comfort
-exercise/work out
-go to sleep and/or listen to music

I agree with ReiAyanami for the most part... although I don't know if I could keeping watching it... Maybe I'd just stare at my girlfriend the whole time...